D.J. Demers

He wears hearing aids, but it's totally not a big deal.

D.J. Demers is a stand-up comedian. 

Episode 20 - Thomas Dale

The hilarious Thomas Dale stopped by my apartment this week. We talked about the joys of prostate stimulation, his grievance with one of my jokes (the 'partner' bit), and his premonition of an upcoming Civil War.

Follow Thomas - @ThomasDale5


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Transcript

 [intro] 

D.J. Demers: Hello, everybody. How the hell are ya? Nice to have ya, it’s D.J. here, and we are at episode 20 of “Definitely D.J.”, can you believe it? We made it to episode 20, thank you so much for tuning in to all of these episodes or maybe this is your first one. Either way, thank you so much for tuning in, it’s been a blast, so glad we made it to 20, here’s to 20 more and hopefully more beyond that. We’re just getting started. I’m coming to you live from a hotel room in Sioux City, Iowa. Not live of course, but I’m recording right now in a hotel in Sioux City, Iowa. I just performed at Morning Side College in Sioux City, Iowa. I flew out of L.A. this morning, well not L.A. Burbank- man, what an experience that was. My flight was at 9 A.M., I’ve- I haven’t really had an alarm clock in a couple of months, I use a vibrating alarm clock as a hard-of-hearing person but it broke a couple of months ago and I’ve been using my phone as a replacement. That does not work very well at all. The vibrations not enough for me and obviously I can’t hear it, so- I woke up at 8 A.M. this morning, for a 9 A.M. flight. Oh my God, you know that panic you feel when you realize you’re so late, oh my God. But luckily, I was all packed up and I was flying out of Burbank, woke up at 8 A.M., was out of the house by 8:15, at the airport by 8:22 and waiting at line at my terminal by 8:30. Wow, if I was flying out of LAX, I would have been screweeeed, so screwed. But I made it, had a fun show, here I am in Sioux City, Iowa, flying back to L.A. tomorrow morning, 6:45 A.M – in and out of Iowa. 

I got some big news I gotta share with you – I got a big tour coming up in October. I’m so excited I’m finally able to announce it, huge tour called “The Here To Hear Tour” and that is “Here To Hear” so H-E-R-E T-O H-E-A-R. So, “Here To Hear” and if you go to heretoheartour.com, you can learn more about it. It’s gonna be a big one. I’m travelling across America for the entire month of October, it’s going to be an amazing tour, sponsored by my good friends at Phonak Hearing Aids and when I say like big tour, I mean big tour. I’m talking like a tour bus with my giant face on the side of the bus. I’m sleeping on the bus every night. We’re gonna put YouTube videos every day, Instagram, Snapchat, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, they said we didn’t need LinkedIn, I fought hard – don’t sleep on LinkedIn son, that’s what I say. It’s gonna be incredible, I’m gonna be telling jokes at colleges- and a big reason for the tour is to destigmatize hearing loss, have some fun with it, talk to the college students, let them know what technology they can use to make their lives easier and uh- just have fun. We’re gonna have some fun, I’m gonna learn a lot of new things, I’m gonna meet new people, and just gonna have a great damn time. I cannot wait, I’ll have more details coming soon, in the meantime heretoheartour.com. Can’t wait, more big news- just the hits keep coming. 

The next piece of news is, every episode of “Definitely D.J.” will be captioned from now on. You can find the captioned episodes on my website, djdemers.com, and I’m just so excited. I’ve had a few people reach out to me and say they’re little upset or disappointed-um, that I would have a podcast that’s not completely accessible for hard-of-hearing people, and I agree 100%. So now, the podcast is captioned and uh- 

the captions are provided by hearinglikeme.com, which provides the latest news, lifestyle and text stories written for and by people with hearing loss, people affected with hearing loss as well. I’ve written a couple of articles for them, it’s a great website. You should check that out for sure – hearinglikeme.com. So thank you so much for providing us with that service, hearinglikeme.com, I appreciate it and I know uh- many other people are going to as well. So, if you wanna see the captions for every episode, go to djdemers.com and they would be right there along with the episode. Amazing. 

So, big tour coming up, every episode is now captioned, just great news all around and very exciting times and I’m very excited that you’ve chosen to tune in and listen to me and listen to the amazing guest I have this week. This week’s guest is Thomas Dale, and Thomas is just an amazing comedian and um- just fantastic, like you gotta see this guy on stage. He’s an amazing comedian- he’s also a very sweet guy, I always enjoy talking to him and um-we had a great chat. We got into a lot of, a lot of stuff. Some deep stuff, we even got sexual – we got pretty, this is definitely the most sexual episode uh- which was very fun. Um, you guys are gonna like it a lot, so please put your hands together – yeah that’s right, put your hands together, wherever you are – in your home, in your car, give a warm round of applause for an amazing comedian – my good friend, Thomas Dale. 

[interview] 

D.J. Demers: Always good hanging with you, man. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, always. 

D.J. Demers: You know what I like about you is uh- you’re like a brash, like a kind of “in-your-face” guy. 

Thomas Dale: Mhm, yup. 

D.J. Demers: But you listen. You have that entertaining way of talking to people, but then you’re not all about you, you’ll say something, you’ll make me laugh and then if I say something, you actually listen and you build on it. Very rare combination of somebody’s who got that big personality but who also- 

Thomas Dale: I find that it’s draining, those people who like it’s always so much, I don’t enjoy it cause it’s like- it should be a back and forth, you know. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, well because uh- ironically I kind of cut you off there but if a person always cutting you off and not listening, then you’re like “Why would I even talk?”. Like it becomes- 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, and you have to catch yourself, cause I do get excited and I do cut- I do cut people off but I enjoy, I- here’s my thing: I want the other person to make me laugh, like I enjoy laughing and so when I find people that genuinely make 

me laugh, I wanna give them the stage. I go for “Please, entertain me” cause I feel like I’m always entertaining everyone in my life so, but the problem is that not everyone makes me laugh, so when I’m in conversation with someone who’s not being funny to me, I pick up the slack. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: And I go more, so I don’t listen to them that much- I’m trying to, I get everybody the opportunity and if they don’t get it, then I’m like “Listen, I’m not gonna sit here and fucking, like-”. So, that’s how it goes. If I’m listening, you’re funny. [laughing] 

D.J. Demers: Do you value somebody being funny over anything else? 

Thomas Dale: Yes. Well, here’s the thing, and I’ll be completely honest – I tend to really like people who love me and get- they love my humor, they love my comedy, they love me, so I’ll be honest – I love that. I’m like, if a kid loves me, I love that kid. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, 100%. I think that’s pretty natural. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, I think that’s natural so I tend to- I really- like my sister one time, saw someone like just loving me and be like “Thomas this, Thomas that” and she’s like “Oh God, he’s loving that, that person is his number 1”, because they love him so much. I want someone to be funny and make me laugh, that’s important to me. So, if they are the funny, I will take second- I’ll take back seat all night. 

D.J. Demers: And to go back to your point loving somebody who loves you, uh- you can tell the difference between like a fan who just like laughing at you to make you feel good and somebody who is genuinely like is on your vibe and loving you. So, I think there’s a difference between that, it’s not like “Oh, you’re making me feel good, I love you no matter what”. It’s when- it’s that feeling when you start talking to somebody and you’re like “Oh, we’re vibing here, like we’re on the same level”. 

Thomas Dale: And they get it, yeah. I like it when people like- come up to me after shows and talk about me about my comedy, I thank them for getting it. I go “Thank you for getting it” and for being there with me. Because you can laugh just because it’s funny but when they get it and you can tell they’re like “Oh my God, no, I get you”, I’m like “Yes, that is important”. 

D.J. Demers: I think that’s a whole thing we trying to do is, stand-up comedians, to just make people get where we’re coming from, and then when you get people who are on your level- on your level sounds kind of pretentious, we’re on the same waveline, 100%- 

Thomas Dale: Let’s say waveline, yes. 

D.J. Demers: Then you can kinda go anywhere cause you know that- they’re kinda on that waveline, so you can go in all these weird- I mean you go into some weird dark fucking places and people go with you, cause you’re hilarious. 

Thomas Dale: Mhm. 

D.J. Demers: I saw you at the improv last night, and you ended with, I was watching something in the lab, so I only caught the end of your set, apologies- 

Thomas Dale: No worries. 

D.J. Demers: Um, but your final joke about your, um- sniffing your dad’s underwear. 

Thomas Dale: Oh, yeah, uh-uh. 

D.J. Demers: Everything you tell, is that real? 

Thomas Dale: Everything is real. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah? 

Thomas Dale: It’s all real. I can’t- I would feel, I feel gross if I- I’ve done it in the past where I’ve embellished a lot on a joke, and it turn, it was like a lie and I’m like “Eh, that’s not my thing”. So, it was a 100% real and I felt about being honest about that cause I wanted people to see how awful it is when you suppress people in ANY situation, not just being gay – ANY suppression makes people do weird things. You really think I wanted to smell my dad’s underwear? But that was my only, my only outlet, I needed a man’s scent. Like I was 12, I was coming of age, just like all of us- 

D.J. Demers: But you couldn’t say you were gay. 

Thomas Dale: And I couldn’t tell I was gay. So I couldn’t be, I couldn’t just hook up with another boy in school like you could hook up with a girl in school and fulfill your fantasy- 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: So that’s what I needed and I feel like, if I can’t be honest with people to show them something, what am I here for? I might just go be something else, chef or something like, you know. I think our honesty as comics is what the gift is, for the people. 

D.J. Demers: We have that opportunity to get out there and let them know- 

Thomas Dale: Just being honest, cause most people can’t be- cause they have these jobs and they have this images and they have these family lives and I- 

D.J. Demers: You start to play a role, whether you know it or not. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, that’s a common person and that’s fine. But I think as comics we should break that barrier and be real as fuck. 

D.J. Demers: I agree. And when you see people do it really well, like you- 

Thomas Dale: Thank you. 

D.J. Demers: It’s really inspiring because now you’ve seen a real person who’s not afraid to show you every dark corner of their personality, not even necessarily dark. Somebody who’s not afraid to show you every aspect of their brain or personality. Um- when you were like 12 and not able to, you know- make out with a boy, were you involved with girls, were you trying to convince yourself- 

Thomas Dale: Oh, yeah. I had girlfriends all the time, I was Homecoming King. 

D.J. Demers: Really? 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, the boys were jealous of me. Cause I had always the most hot, popular girl from high scho-from 2nd grade till 12 grade. I always had the most popular girl- 

D.J. Demers: Cause the stakes were so low for you. [laughing] 

Thomas Dale: To me, they were just my friends. 

D.J. Demers: Did you have any attraction or did you know you were like- 

Thomas Dale: Um, listen – that’s why I tell straight guys, you- I have the attraction, I guess on a just physical sense. If I touched you right now, mentally or not whether you couldn’t resist or not, it would feel good. And that’s it, that’s the bottom line – that’s it. Like if I let a girl right now touch me, I wouldn’t wanted to because I’m like “I’m not into you, I’m gay, I’m not really into girls” so it’s weird. That’s all it is, weird and arousal – a two separate things. Just cause it’s weird doesn’t mean I can’t get aroused. 

D.J. Demers: Mhm. I mean, I can only get aroused if it’s weird. [laughing] 

Thomas Dale: [laughing] Exactly, right! Exactly, exactly. So that’s- there you go, so um- 

D.J. Demers: Why did you feel like you couldn’t tell anybody? Was your family really religious? 

Thomas Dale: Oh, God. 

D.J. Demers: You grew up in New York City? 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, I grew up in New York, I was born in Queens and then I was raised at Long Island, which is even worse cause they’re like- you know, they’re all 

Trump supporters, basically and um- my dad was an ex-cop, my family- my mom’s side had mafia in it- 

D.J. Demers: Wow. 

Thomas Dale: So I like grew up around the most alpha type of dudes- 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, no shit. 

Thomas Dale: Of all type of like, themes – mafia, cops, Long Island, Queens. My parents are both from Brooklyn, so like my whole fam- my grandfather from Italy, off the boat, you know like- he came from Italy to Boston, to New York so he was Bostonian in a sense, like all the most, like douche things. And I was a gay kid and I knew it 9 years old, so didn’t just start when I was an adult, so I knew right away. 

D.J. Demers: How did you know it then? 

Thomas Dale: I always tell the story um- I was on a soccer team, we were having a slumber party and I had a crush on my teammate- just a crush, not even sexual. I just wanted to like kiss him and hug him and like, lay with him. And um, I felt it wasn’t normal, you just feel it and I was like “Oh God, this is a weird thing” and then I think I might tried to go lay with him or whatever, he was kinda weirded out by it and I was like “Oh fuck, this-no one likes this but me” [laughing] Yeah, so I was like- 

D.J. Demers: And you shut it down in your mind? 

Thomas Dale: Oh yeah, I was like- I always through I was just gonna have to marry a woman and like hook up with dudes on the side. That was my thing, that was my only option. 

D.J. Demers: Man, it must have been so liberating when you made- When did you make the decision “Fuck it, I’m telling everyone”? 

Thomas Dale: Uh, nineteen. 

D.J. Demers: Nineteen? 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, so I graduated high school and my best friend was like flamboyantly gay and everyone loved him, um- so I just- 

D.J. Demers: Did he know you were gay? 

Thomas Dale: I told him first cause I went to a dance show with my girlfriend, she was on a dance team. I went to the conference with her and the Aladdin that was there, turned me on so much that I- I had to tell somebody. Like I was so, like “Oh my God, this guy’s so fucking hot”, so I went and told my best friend and I was like “Dude, Aladdin was so hot”, he was like- that was my way of telling him I was gay- he was like “I always knew but I wanted you to tell me”, so- and then um-I graduated and then I told everybody. But I had to tell- the hardest was telling my ex-girlfriends. 

D.J. Demers: Really? 

Thomas Dale: Oh yeah, that was the hardest. Because I would be intimate with them, you know, I was being sexual with them, so it’s kind of like- 

D.J. Demers: “It’s none of that real?”- 

Thomas Dale: Right. And you feel like you hurting them- I made them mix tapes and shit, you know. Like, those were like real love, like I cried over girls before, I was emotionally invested. But that’s why I think gay guys- because we’ve seen the other side. I’m just as gay as you are straight, so if I’m able to do that, you’re able to do that, so this bullshit of “Five million dollars and I’ll do it”- you’re lying in my face and- I’m not just gonna sit back and be “Oh yeah, he’s being honest” like- 

D.J. Demers: Give me five million dollars to do something gay? 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, they say this astronomical number and I’m like “Motherfucker, 1.000 dollars and I’ll be jerking you off, like please” [laughing] or a 10.000 or a 100.000, whatever. It’s not five million. And straight society is so fucking- they piss me off so much because they’re so like, they just get like the -dumb almost. It’s like naive, not dumb. Naive, like child -like naive type. 

D.J. Demers: In the dishonest- dishonesty with ourselves too. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, it’s very like-when I see flamboyantly gay men married to women, I’m like “Honey, you”- he’s so faggy, like “You’re insulting yourself” and- yeah. 

D.J. Demers: Well, what about the idea that a straight men can act gay? Is that a- can have gay characteristics but still be straight, you think that- 

Thomas Dale: No, because here’s the thing – yes, a straight man can have gay characteristics in like, the submissive way and all that because that’s dumb, like there are many gay men that are dumb and that’s stupid. But when it comes to like acting like a girl, that’s because you have more estrogen. The estrogen or whatever chemical thing is what makes you want to suck the dick- 

D.J. Demers: Really? Do gay men have more estrogen, like scientifically? 

Thomas Dale: I think that it’s a brain thing. I think that it’s a-you know, it’s a gene. They say it’s a gene, so maybe it’s not estrog- I don’t know. 

D.J. Demers: That makes you act more- 

Thomas Dale: I think estrogen makes you even more feminine. 

D.J. Demers: Okay. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, I think that the feminine thing is what makes you attracted to masculinity. 

D.J. Demers: Hmm. What about the reverse – there’s gay guys who don’t act particularly- 

Thomas Dale: I know, they’re super masculine. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: They’re usually are attracted to like more feminine dudes. But they are also attracted to masculine dudes. I don’t know, it’s just one of the theories, they- I think they need to put more research into it, cause I’d love to know why I am what I am. I know it’s not nurture, because otherwise I would be nurtured to be a real fucking asshole. 

D.J. Demers: [laughing] Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: [laughing] I would’ve been a straight, macho, womanizing dick. That’s how- 

D.J. Demers: Who’s fucking guys on the side. 

Thomas Dale: Fucking dudes on the side. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: If it was nurture, cause I was nurtured to be a straight man. So, that’s why it’s so dumb to me, and when they’re like “It’s nurture”, I’m like- because every gay person I know was taught to be straight. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, I was nurtured to be a straight man. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah exactly, so nurture, what are you talking about? Straight parents nurturing teens, trying to overloved their kids into being gay, like that’s so ridiculous. 

D.J. Demers: Did you, once you came out of 18, did you feel more liberated to act gay? 

Thomas Dale: Um, no because I acted gay when I was in elementary school, I was feminine and everyone called me fag and all that, and then I realized I have to be straight so I taught myself to be more of a dude. And then I enjoyed it, I liked being a guy, um- but I think I got so into that role from 7th grade on- cause in elementary school I was a little faggy, and I was like “Oh no, I’m going to, like the big leagues now”, you know. So my girlfriend used to teach me how to walk, in the kitchen. She would- 

D.J. Demers: Really?! What grade? 

Thomas Dale: This was 6th or 7th. 

D.J. Demers: She teached you how to walk more macho? 

Thomas Dale: Mhm. She would teach me how to say “What’s up?” to people, oh yeah. One time I was like “Heeeey” and she was like “That’s not how you do it, motherfucker” and she would say “Just nod your head out”. 

D.J. Demers: Was she Italian? 

Thomas Dale: She was Italian also, yeah. And she was still my girlfriend though. And she never thought I was gay, she just thought I acted girly because I had three sisters. So I was able to say- 

D.J. Demers: I have two older sisters, I acted girly I think when I was younger- 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, and that’s the thing like- you act a little girly but I think like- I don’t know, gay guys are just different, you just- we have more, you know- even though I’m masculine looking, if you lookin in my eyes, like I have more femininity in my eyes, you know what I’m saying. Like there is little touch of, little touch of female in us, you know? 

D.J. Demers: Uh, and that’s why you’re usually pretty good people. 

Thomas Dale: Exactly, yeah, that’s the thing. Gay people are usually- and it’s funny because my little nephew and niece, they’re 8 and 6 and they were talk-we were talking about gay people in the hotel room with our parents and my nephew goes, he’s like “They’re always so nice and sweet- all the gay people I know are so nice, you know”, and my brother-in-law cause I have gotten into a fight with this gay dude like years ago, looked to me and goes “Oh yeah, they’re all nice”, like you almost beat the shit out of one. 

D.J. Demers: Oh, I have an interesting relationship with the gay community because I did a joke on America’s Got Talent. 

Thomas Dale: I remember that, I told you I was not- I didn't. Honestly now that we're more closer, I didn't lie, I thought it was cheap. 

D.J. Demers: OK. Cool. 

Thomas Dale: I thought it was cheap and I don't think you realized because you’re straight person. But, you know, to use the trickery in my mind I was like, I guess yes it's clever because then people will- their ears will spark up. But if you haven't gone through that struggle, to me it was kind of like to allude that you're gay and then there's gay people- cause I did that, I thought you were gay then, after I watched that set, I was like, so you know, it's like trickery to the gay people. 

D.J. Demers: I understand that now, unlike the- like I said I was like nurtured to be straight. So, when I was a kid, I, when I- my sister used to tell me I was gay all the time and everything. So like I had girlfriends and stuff too, but there was a point where I was like “Am I”? Like I got to really be -and then I'm just not. But the whole point was I thought of that and I think if I did come out, I know my family is kind of traditional and it wouldn't be cool. Like I think they come around. So when I first kind of thought of that joke, it was kind of like “Man, my dad wouldn't like this joke”. And the point is “Who cares?”. So I thought I was kind of on the right side right there. Who cares? That's the point. And then when I did it on like a bigger stage, it was more like gay baiting. 

Thomas Dale: Yes exactly. It was, it’s the literally the epitome of gay men. Yeah without intention, without that intention. Totally, I don't think you had that intention. 

D.J. Demers: No. 

Thomas Dale: Because you didn't get to see the reaction probably from other, from gay people. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. And then I had a lot of gay men who reached out to me and they complimented me and stuff, and it feels really great. 

Thomas Dale: Right. 

D.J. Demers: But I'm also like “Oh no”. 

Thomas Dale: Yes. And then as a human being, you should have that feeling and be like “Oh, fuck”, I might have unintentionally put out the wrong vibe. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, so I tried to make it clear now. And my whole thing is I still like the compliment. You guys seemed to be really nice. But I don't want to be gay baiting. So, it is a weird thing. 

Thomas Dale: It’s like when girls put their ass out on little skirts and then say “Stop sexualizing me”. It's literally like that. It's like “Well, don't portray that, then”. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, exactly. So that- that was a very interesting realization and it was interesting to see how I reacted to it, because my whole joke was “Who cares if you're straight or gay”. 

Thomas Dale: Gay people care! [laughing] 

D.J. Demers: And then I got all these responses from gay men, and then my reaction was “Oh, this is, how do I feel about this?”. 

Thomas Dale: Right, right, exactly, yeah- right. Who cares- right. Then come get your dicks out and you're like “Oh wait”, so then it brings like fraudulence on your own self. Cause we like to write bits that are real, so you’re like “Oh, fuck”. Well now 

it's not even not fraudulence, but like, you know when you do a joke about like a fact and you find out the fact is wrong, and you’re like “Oh fuck, now that joke doesn't work, it’s not true”. You know, you kind of see it, like “Oh fuck”. Well, it does matter. 

D.J. Demers: It does matter. It's an interesting thing too, because you evolve as a person. So it's like, you don't want to be like “Oh, I don't like that joke” because at that time I did have good intentions. Well, my intention was to make people laugh. So, when I wrote that joke, I was going to say “I hate when other people say partner because now you're making me have to guess it”. 

Thomas Dale: Right, right, right. 

D.J. Demers: So then I was like “No, it's better if I just get- So, anyway, the whole point of that is -that it was an unexpected relationship with the gay community that I never intended. And I'm glad you're honest with me on that though, because that has been something that weighed on me, so to hear you tell it. Cool, I wasn't being paranoid and weird- 

Thomas Dale: No, totally was, yeah. 

D.J. Demers: Well, that’s good to know. 

Thomas Dale: And it's good too that it was just like, it didn't, you know- you didn't become the- the “is he gay” comedian, “is he gay, is he not”. It was just more of a little blip. You got feedback from people and you're like “Oh fuck, this isn't the thing and vibe I want” and then you're able to move on. That's good for you. 

D.J. Demers: And I did it on Conan and America's Got Talent and it was never supposed to be that big of a thing, but America's Got Talent was like “We like that joke, we want you to do it”, so I'm like “I’m doing it again”. 

Thomas Dale: It's like, they got their diversity without having to have diversity [laughing] Motherfuckers. 

D.J. Demers: But they already got the hearing aids, I’m not gonna- 

Thomas Dale: “Gay and hearing aids?! We love it! It’s not true? We don’t care!” [laughing] Fucking Hollywood. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. Well, how do your- how do your father react when you told him? 

D.J. Demers: Oh my God. He- well I didn't tell him, I was going to school in Manhattan Theatre School, um, musical theatre school and uh- I came out there. I was only out in Manhattan but not in Long Island. So I never went home to Long Island. And then I got so depressed, I hated being gay. I hated the gay clubs. I was just like, this little 18 year old, 19 year old kid. I just was miserable. I didn't feel like I fit with gay people, I didn't feel like I fooled straight people. I felt like I belonged 

nowhere and I mean- I was a kid. Now I love that I don't belong anywhere except for comics, that's the only place I feel like I do belong. So, my friend called my mom and- she told my mom and my mom called- cause it was like, almost like depression-suicidal, she was worried about me, I was doing a lot of drugs. And then my mom was like, called me and asked if there was something I needed to tell her. And then we talked, we cried, whatever. And then my dad- I was leaving the school, I was done. And my dad came to pick me up and he was like- he negotiated with me. He was like “You're bi”. He's like “I've seen you with girls, you're bi”. And I was like- he's like “this is a tough life you're choosing”. He was basically telling me “just say you’re bi”. Start with that. And when I look back at it, though it would have been dishonest and not real and not who I am- like when I look at Hollywood stuff, I see all these like straight male, all these guys who I think are bi, are down-low or whatever, and they are flirting with the casting directors and the female network people. You know- I'm going to be honest. They use their power with these straight men to like, they give them roles and they give them opportunities because they're using their sexuality. I've had so many of these female like exacts or female casting directors or female empowered people say “Oh my, we love you so much, we’re such fans”. But I've heard nothing from them, but yet my lesser-talented, attractive, straight counterpart will get all these opportunities and I see the women flirting with them, because they're using the power just like men do. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: But it's so corny, it's like, you know girls, you know you want to say you're better than men in these things and so behave better. Don't do the same thing that they're doing. Go for the most talented person, you know. Not for the sh- you know, the crap because you want them to flirt with you or want to fuck you, like come on. 

D.J. Demers: Are there many women in power? 

Thomas Dale: Oh yes, of course, Hollywood, that's why it's all like female empowerment stuff on movies and TV, which I think is great. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: But that's why it is that way, because it's all women in charge. So they are giving all- even like straight girl bookers of comedy shows. I see- you know, they'll flirt with all the boys because they think that, you know, that you can fu- I love flirting, but because when I try to fuck. They're like “Oh well, whatever Thomas you're just”, they treat me- we're almost worse than a female comic, because as a female comic, they look at them as “Oh well, you're like me”. So I want to empower females but with a gay guy, it's like “Oh, he's just a gay guy”. So I get it, like if I just stayed by, then who knows? Maybe I could have used- I could have fooled these girls just like the straight boys fooled them. 

D.J. Demers: Your dad was just trying to help you carrier- 

Thomas Dale: I was listening. They don't really want you, they're using you, so be better than that, ok? 

D.J. Demers: Wow. You think it's like the same proportion of women using their power in that way? 

Thomas Dale: 1000 percent. Yup. And I would, I would expect better from them, like I would expect them to just go for the real talents, go for what's really funny, go for what's going to make the show great, you know? And I'm not saying all of them do that. Obviously not. I've met very respectable, you know, women in power, women directors and casting directors and bookers, and they- like Page at improv. She books based on funny. That's it. And I love her for that. She doesn't –it’s not out there trying to use her position to get guys like UH, she's so much better than that, you know. That's a great example. 

D.J. Demers: What about men in power? Do you find that as a gay man, you face any sort of repercussions from them? 

Thomas Dale: Not at all. To be honest with you, the men in power do use their thing with them. But to be honest a lot of men in power really are trying to just get the job done, like that –you know, they will use their power to like, you know, get younger, prettier girls or any kind of women to like them. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: But at the end of the day, they really just start to get the job done. It's not like emotional secured- like an insecure thing, like makes them feel pretty. It's not like that, you know. 

D.J. Demers: Maybe you haven't seen that side of them because you're not like a young, beautiful- 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, actually I take it back. You're right. Very good point. Cause I'm not a female so I don't know what they feel like, they probably are being totally predatored again on. On the contrary, they're definitely being preyed on. Yeah, that's true. And you know what straight males in power- they probably treat gay- gay comments with the same respect as like, you know ,whatever with them, cause they're chasing the girls and then they want the same bro ship with like the straight male comics, so they do it- fuck them [laughing] You do find the diamonds in the rough, though, you know. I've met a lot of people in the industry that I- I look up to, I respect, I think that they're great. They are doing it just for the project, you know. There's a few people in Comedy Central I've worked with, that I think are just really into the art of it and they don't care, you know, who they're fucking, they're not in it for that, so I do- you know, I have to say they definitely um- there are people out there that are good, in the industry. 

D.J. Demers: I think power in general, I’ve been thinking lately. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, you're right. You know what, let me- I'm gonna take it back because I kind of sometimes like when I have like straight male, like straight comics or straight fans, I fucking sexually abused them so awfully. Just because they respect me for my comedy and I use that power, so you know what – I take it back. Females in power, go get yours. [laughing] Do your thing, I have evolved in this conversation – do your thing, I would do the same thing. Who am I, what am I talking about? 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: I'm all potentious right now, female do your fuckin- I would be worse. I wouldn't even be- I'd be like “Fuck the project, come fuck me”. Yeah, you're right. I'm sorry, girls. Yeah I get it, I get it now cause I see it now. 

D.J. Demers: Power is so- I've been trying this out on stage recently, in the past couple nights about the idea that like we're going to see Justin Bieber get really fucking weird now, cause he's like 24 or something and the joke I've been working on is like, when people get power and fame really young, like 16, they don't even know what the fuck to do. 

Thomas Dale: Right. 

D.J. Demers: Like I guess I'll buy 50 jet skis. 

Thomas Dale: Right, right. It's true, right. 

D.J. Demers: And then he's hitting the age now, where he's like mid 20s, he’s gonna be like “Oh, did I say jet skis? I meant sex slave” 

Thomas Dale: Yeaaah, that’s true! 

D.J. Demers: Like R. Kelly, all the stuff going on about him, having basically a cult of submissive young girls. Power- 

Thomas Dale: That's so true. Oh, I bet you Bieber definitely just been in orgies, male, female- cause you get to that level and you're just like whatever. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, yeah. I'm going to do the craziest. I'm going to like see what desires I have, I don’t even know. Yeah, so I remember hearing when I was younger that Jack Nicholson said he was happy that he got famous a bit later in life, he was 32 or something. Um, because he wouldn't have known what to do with it. I like 20, I think, there’s a- I agree, if I would have gotten super famous like 20, man – game over. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah. I've had our psychics-I speaked to real good ones. Mediums actually, mediums and I've had one say to me “You're lucky you didn't get famous 

when you were a kid because you would have died”. I used to do so many drugs and I would have overdosed. He said “You would have definitely overdose”. People just hand you drugs at that age. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: So yeah. 

D.J. Demers: And you wanna do them. 

Thomas Dale: Of course you want it- I was doing what I was paying for, so imagine if they were free. 

D.J. Demers: So what drugs you were doing? 

Thomas Dale: Everything. Ecstasy, cocain, weed, pills- everything. 

D.J. Demers: And this was during college? 

Thomas Dale: This was, I'd say 17 to 22. 

D.J. Demers: And at that time you were doing all these drugs, do you know you're dealing with like, the pain of coming out and all that, or are you just –do you think you’re having a good time? 

Thomas Dale: I thought and I was just having fun, I was with all my friends which were all straight. I was with all my straight friends from high school. So I was just having a blast. But I look back and it's like “Oh my God, what damage have you done to your brain”, you know. 

D.J. Demers: Were your parents worried about you? 

Thomas Dale: They did. Yeah, of course, yeah. I mean I had episodes and I mean, you know, there were so many traumatic big “Budellas”, we call them in Italian family. A “Budella” is like a big dramatic scene. 

D.J. Demers: “Budella”? 

Thomas Dale: Yeah. I've had a few of those. 

D.J. Demers: Wow. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah. [laughing] 

D.J. Demers: You told that one on TV. 

Thomas Dale: On “This is Not Happening”, yeah. 

D.J. Demers: In that story, what happened in that one? You don’t have to do the whole thing if you don’t want- people would love to hear it. You can give me the cliff notes, if you want. 

Thomas Dale: The cliff notes is – I fell in love. It was three year relationship, it was tumultuous. He was- he was an alcoholic, he was cheating on me. Actually I'm sorry. We met last month, he said he was never cheating on me and this was 10 years later. So, 15 years later, so it doesn't matter. You know, we were kids. He was 18, I was 21. And um-you know, we were just in love and I eventually, I lost my mind and I like overdosed on these pills that I was taking to sleep. And I tried to like kill myself. And it wound up just being like that I was just really ashamed of being gay and this felt like a disappointment to my family and through all that I found- I started comedy after that happened and I, you know, fell in love with comedy and I found myself through trying to kill myself. 

D.J. Demers: Wow. And you've been doing comedy how long now? 

Thomas Dale: Uh, ten years going on eleven, well no, eleven will be next year. So yeah, 10 years. 

D.J. Demers: And how did your family feel now and seeing you be so open about all this? 

Thomas Dale: It's hard for them to see, because they're not open and honest about stuff. So it's hard for them to see me be so open and honest, like my- the smelling of my dad's underwear joke- my dad hates. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, I was gonna say. 

Thomas Dale: He does not like that joke. 

D.J. Demers: Do you feel any desire to not do that stuff too if you- 

Thomas Dale: No, I have. I did it in front of him, like I had to. I have to. To me, it's like, I just can't and I battled- 

D.J. Demers: It’s the whole reason you’re doing comedy. 

Thomas Dale: I was like “Fuck”, I talked to one of my buddies, was like “I really don't know if I could do this joke, I really don't know if I could do it in front of him” and I did it in front of him and I was like “If I could do this joke in front of him, in front of friends of his too, I can do anything”. Like, there's nothing there, there’s no- that's like- 

D.J. Demers: The fear is gone, you've conquered it. 

Thomas Dale: The fear is gone, I've conquered it. 

D.J. Demers: What is- I forget the psychology quote from Freud or somebody. What is it- we're all just trying to like kill our fathers or something like that? 

Thomas Dale: Something like that, right. Yeah, yeah. 

D.J. Demers: Something dark. I mean metaphorically killed that theory at that moment. 

Thomas Dale: Well I said- I wanna write a book. The title of its called “Too Much Like My Father”, cause I think every male has that thing with their dad. 

D.J. Demers: Oh, yeah. 

Thomas Dale: And we're just trying to be our own man. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: But we see ourselves in our- we see our shortcomings in our dad. 

D.J. Demers: I'm realizing that I am my father now. 

Thomas Dale: And then I'm like “Fuck”. And you're like- my dad's like “Oh you make it sound like a bad thing” and I was like “It's not a bad thing but there are things about you that I think aren't good, that I see in me and I hate it” because I haven't- it's like you gave it to me. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: You know, so it's like there's that battle, so I wanna like write that book about that. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: I think that's a pretty cool concept. 

D.J. Demers: For sure, it’s a great content. Especially with the unique story you have where you're gay. So, you have all the things your father has or a lot of value out in- 

Thomas Dale: In a completely different way. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. And you said that you recently changed meds. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, I've recently changed meds to like more-more non-narcotic cause they were giving me narcotic meds, so non-narcotic meds, more like just trying to chemically balance my brain. 

D.J. Demers: Did you start taking meds after the suicide attempt? 

Thomas Dale: No, I was taking meds during that time, all kinds of them and I think it made my mind crazy, cause I'm not like suicidal. That's not the kind of person I am. 

D.J. Demers: Why you’re on so many meds? 

Thomas Dale: Because of my boyfriend. Cause it was so tumultuous. And I just was like “Well maybe I need medication”. And I do, I'm bipolar one apparently. 

D.J. Demers: Okay. 

Thomas Dale: So I do it. And that runs in my family, like my aunt was like an arsonist. 

D.J. Demers: Really? [laughing] So casual, my aunt was like an arsonist. You know, everybody's got that arsonist- 

Thomas Dale: You know, at Thanksgiving- arsonist aunt. [laughing] 

D.J. Demers: [laughing] “Where is aunt Jane? Somebody find aunt Jane!”. 

Thomas Dale: [laughing] Oh, it's just the turkey. “Somebody find aunt Jane”. 

D.J. Demers: Oh, always gotta keep an eye on aunt Jane. [laughing] 

Thomas Dale: Bitch just rubbing sticks together. [laughing] 

D.J. Demers: So what- are a lot of arsonist bipolar? Is that a thing? 

Thomas Dale: I guess so, I mean shit- at the very least. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. So what- like what is your bipolar disorder, what form does it take? 

Thomas Dale: Um, for mine, it’s -I get depressed and I have paranoia. And like, I have OCD. My OCD is not like- I used to knock on wood anytime I had a bad thought, like I used to travel with wood with me. 

D.J. Demers: No way! 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, I used to have, you know the very- 

D.J. Demers: What kind of wood? 

Thomas Dale: It was just a piece of wood, like a hand that was wood. 

D.J. Demers: Wow. By the way, when I said “No way”, I didn't mean to sound so judgmental, like you could be so crazy about bringing wood around with you. [laughing] “Get the fuck out of my house, you weirdo”. 

Thomas Dale: “You freak” [laughing] 

D.J. Demers: I have OCD. I'll check this stove right beside us here like seven times. 

Thomas Dale: You always have to catch it early. 

D.J. Demers: Even if I haven't used the stove that day, I'm like looking at it. 

Thomas Dale: You have to catch earl- see, even just talking about it, makes me want to do it. So I will race the thought. I won't listen to music before I go to sleep because then a song over and over and over my head will go- yeah, I won't even talk about OCD for too long because then I'll start to get into habits. So yeah, it's just ritualistic stuff but I'm OCD with my thoughts. If I get into something, like If I get my claws into something, a thought, I'll run it to the ground, I’ll run it, kill it, resurrected it, kill it again- it’s just never stops. 

D.J. Demers: You mean, like over days, weeks or over- 

Thomas Dale: Over months. 

D.J. Demers: Really? 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, I get like a thing, I get fixated on something and then I just think about it all the time. It could be a person, it could be a thing. Yeah, my career was one of them. When I first started comedy, I was and I accomplished a lot in New York because I was so focused and just obsessed. And it goes back and forth, like I'll do- it'll be career or that it will be like a boy or a guy that I love it. Usually it's a straight guy that I'm in love with. It will be that or you know, or if it's a drug stage, I'll just be like- you know, smoking weed all the time or you know like that kind of thing and then I'll stop and won't touch anything. Or it could be like a health thing and then I'll be thinking about, like I just went through four months of thinking that I had cancer everywhere. Literally, like I went and got a CAT scan and an endoscopy and a colonoscopy and- 

D.J. Demers: Really? 

Thomas Dale: They stuck the finger up my ass, the whole thing. 

D.J. Demers: Wow. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, I did everything- urologist, check my balls- everything, like I was convinced. 

D.J. Demers: And nothing. 

Thomas Dale: Nothing for four months. 

D.J. Demers: That must feel good, though. 

Thomas Dale: I mean it's- well now I'm like stressed worried that I have lung cancer. That's the new one. But I'm like “You know what? Let me not go there” because I'm teaching myself and I think the medicine is helping me be like “You know what? If it is, it is, you'll die of it, fine, but otherwise don't think about it”. 

D.J. Demers: Is the adjustment going from one type of medicine to another or is it pretty crazy? 

Thomas Dale: I wasn't on anything because I stopped taking all medicine. And then my OCD went through the roof. That's why I think I was going- I was like really convinced. 

D.J. Demers: Do you think pot hurts it? 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, I think it makes me a little more- 

D.J. Demers: It definitely does for me. Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: Yes, it makes me more in tune with it. I think about it more, it’s realer. But that's what I like about weed too, I love the feeling of everything being so intense. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, but it also kind of dulls things sometimes. 

Thomas Dale: Oh, it totally does, yeah. 

D.J. Demers: So like it's intense until a couple of days go by and you're like “I don't really know what happened the past couple of days”. 

Thomas Dale: Right, right. And it's numbing after a while, it's just to the point where at night, you're just like “Pfff”, like poops. But that's kind of a good feeling too, you just pass out. 

D.J. Demers: I know, it is a great feeling. Not when you got to do shows or something. 

Thomas Dale: I know. Totally- 

D.J. Demers: I hate that. I’m like “What a great day, I've just been”- I love baseball, I’m like, I smoke some J’s, I'm watching baseball, and then I’m like “Okay, got to go to comedy. Uuuhh, I don't want to get off the couch”. 

Thomas Dale: I usually take a quick nap. Take a little nap, eat a Snickers and then take a shower and you're good. 

D.J. Demers: I fucking love Snickers. 

Thomas Dale: I can eat- yesterday I bought one, little one and I was like- I went home, ate it and I was like “Who am I kidding”, like “Why didn't you buy two?”. 

D.J. Demers: But that's what I love about it. It's small enough that you're like “That wasn't too bad, you're doing okay”. 

Thomas Dale: Exactly. [laughing] 

D.J. Demers: I’ve meant to tell you, we were talking about La-La Land and you said you didn't like it. And uh-I was talking on the podcast recently and I brought you up because it was a funny moment for me when I was hanging out with you and a few 

new comics I've never hung out with before. What's the name of that diner we were at? 

Thomas Dale: Uh, “Swingers”. 

D.J. Demers: Yes, “Swingers”, and uh- and I brought up La-La Land and before I could say it, because I was about to say how much I loved it and then you were all like “Oh man, the movie sucks” and I was like “Yeah, it does”, like I totally lost my balls. So I learned a lot about myself- 

Thomas Dale: [laughing] That’s great! 

D.J. Demers: You said that you, like went to a lot of Broadway shows and stuff when you were young, so from a musical perspective you know a lot and you were saying it was bad musically? 

Thomas Dale: It was awful. Lyrically, it was not good. Uh-it was- it was just corny. It's like someone who doesn't know musicals wrote it. 

D.J. Demers: What makes it so-like it’s not, like the music's not- 

Thomas Dale: There was no connection, there was no- I didn't feel any connection. It was like, kind of like how Moulin Rouge just sang pop songs, they covered pop songs, that was cool but there was no- musicals are deep, the words- if you listen to the Les Miz or Miss Saigon or you know, any of- It's like “Oh my”, you're moved by it. I was not moved, by them dancing on the one-on-one like a bunch of fucking jackasses. Like, with terrible lyrics and corny choreography, I looked at Michael -my friend, I was like “Is this a satire?”, like I thought it was supposed to be a satire against musical movement. 

D.J. Demers: Really? You though they were striking against the art form? 

Thomas Dale: And then I would have been on board, I would be like “Oh, this is hilarious, so true corny it is”. Nope – they were real and I was like, we-we laughed, I walked out. I don't really walk out of movies, cause you know, it's my money and- 

D.J. Demers: Now I feel like such a loser for like, you know- 

Thomas Dale: You just don't have taste in musicals and that's fine. You weren't raised with them. 

D.J. Demers: I wasn't raised with them. I don't even, I wouldn't even say I generally love them. And I was in a weird emotional mood that night. 

Thomas Dale: Right. Oh yeah, you told me. Yes. “You were missing your girlfriend and you’re out here, chasing your dream” 

D.J. Demers: But it’s funny, it is that moment like I could’ve- maybe I'd watch out right now and not like- for the first time and not like it, so who knows. 

Thomas Dale: I want to- cause it's funny, all my straight male friends who would never like musicals, were like “That was so good”, like they're proud of themselves for liking it and I was like “Oohh, that was awful, and you have no taste”. [laughing] 

D.J. Demers: I mean you're definitely right. My favorite musical that I watched when I was young was “Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat”. 

Thomas Dale: Right. I never saw it because it was like religious, right? 

D.J. Demers: It was. I went to a Catholic school, I was very- 

Thomas Dale: I was not into any of that. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, I liked the actual music. 

Thomas Dale: The music’s good. It’s very like 70s disco, it’s very disco-ey. 

D.J. Demers: [singing] 

Thomas Dale: You see, that’s the last musical writing, that's those like, you know, they're telling a story. I don't know- just was, it was very like Hollywood musical. 

D.J. Demers: You know, my best friend is the lead on “The Book of Mormon” right now. 

Thomas Dale: Oh nice. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. So I've seen that show five times now. 

Thomas Dale: That’s great. I've never seen it. 

D.J. Demers: It’s so good, man. So funny. 

Thomas Dale: I’m sure cause South Park is so good- 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, it's like that South Park sensibility and the music’s amazing. I mean clearly I don't know anything about musicals but I think the music’s amazing. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, no, that's good. 

D.J. Demers: And it's just so funny man. You know a problem for me when I go to musicals is I can’t hear a lot of what they're singing, so lyrically I’m like “The sound’s good but what the hell are they saying?”. 

Thomas Dale: So can you feel the- you feel it though? 

D.J. Demers: Oh yeah, like I can hear the music. 

Thomas Dale: You hear the music? 

D.J. Demers: I just can't hear what they're saying. 

Thomas Dale: Why? Because it’s mumbled to you, it’s muffled? 

D.J. Demers: When people are singing lyrics, it's a lot. And there's music and everything. Even when I listen to songs, like a lot of times I have to look up the lyrics, I can't just hear clear- 

Thomas Dale: Okay, but you hear the music itself. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, yeah, I hear the whole thing, I just can't hear what they said. Well sometimes I can, but like- musicals no, because I like –it’s hard, it’s just hard for me to hear so when I go to a musical, like I remember when we went to see “Joseph” when I was young, we had to read all the songs before and learn them. So, so amazing for me to be at this musical and know what they’re saying. 

Thomas Dale: Right, right. That's great. 

D.J. Demers: So if I do go see musicals, just read before I- homework and that- 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, you’ll be- that’s adorable though like, you'll be able to sing with them. [laughing] 

D.J. Demers: Just giving people facts during the show, like pop-up video. 

D.J. Demers: Yes, exactly. And have you seen Hamilton? 

Thomas Dale: I haven't, I haven't seen any new Broadway- actually no, Aladdin was the last thing I saw, last month. 

D.J. Demers: What’s that? 

Thomas Dale: Aladdin. 

D.J. Demers: Oh, yes. How was the lead, was he sexy? 

Thomas Dale: He was fine. He was not as Middle Eastern as I would’ve enjoyed him to be. 

D.J. Demers: You like Middle Eastern guys? 

Thomas Dale: I kind of been moving on from them. I had a whole thing for the past like kind of three years that I was like, loving Middle Eastern guys. Now I'm kind of like moving on. 

D.J. Demers: Why do you love them so much? 

Thomas Dale: I was in love with one, with a friend of mine who was Middle Eastern and it kind of opened me up to it- I think also- 

D.J. Demers: Was he gay or straight? 

Thomas Dale: No, he’s straight. So there's like, you know, I just I get into these things, you know, “Oh my God, I love adolescent boys”. But now I'm like out of it and I'm over it. And so now I just I don't know, now I'm into bottom boys. That's like a new thing for me. I used to only like straight boys but now I like gay bottoms. 

D.J. Demers: Really? 

Thomas Dale: Like but they have to be like younger like, under like 18, 19 to 25, 19 to 26, smooth little twinky, like bottom boys. I'm into that. Yeah. 

D.J. Demers: And why did that shift happen? 

Thomas Dale: Um, I don't know. I don't know. To be honest with you – I don't know. I think that like, I just started checking out, there's just some dudes who had that physique and I was like “Hmm, I bet you they’ll kind of like this little pink hole on them”, you know. Like I want to turn a good boy bad. [laughing] 

D.J. Demers: There's a big pink hole on all- squeaky clean music. 

Thomas Dale: That's great. 

D.J. Demers: Was it- I want to make sure I got my facts right: we were talking at the improve one night, you said you don't like having sex? 

Thomas Dale: Well, I was- I was again going through a thing where I just like jerk off sessions and blow jobs. But now I want to fuck a bottom. I'm all about it. I've been looking for them. I've been saying “I think I'm ready to fuck”. Last time I had sex was with my ex boyfriend and we used to- I used to bottom for him because I was in love with him. 

D.J. Demers: Okay. 

Thomas Dale: So I gave it to him for three years and then I just, after him was like “Yeah, I'm not into it, I don't really care”, because like I did fuck one guy after him and I think I may have been too big or something but it was too tight for me. So I was like “Eeh, whatever”. So I need to find me a good little loose bottom boy. [laughing] 

D.J. Demers: [laughing] Loose bottom boy. 

Thomas Dale: You got to be a little loose. His buttholes got to be a little vagin-ey. 

D.J. Demers: Is that a thing? 

Thomas Dale: [laughing] Yeah! If they fucked enough, they got to be a little bit loose. Yeah, absolutely. Can’t be too tight, though. Daddy’s packing. [laughing] 

D.J. Demers: Is that a good thing then? Like in the gay community? 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, cause then it hits your prostrate and it feels good. People cum without jerking off that way. 

D.J. Demers: I never had had an orgasm from prostate. I was just talking to a friend recently who said him and his girlfriend, she's doing that for him. 

Thomas Dale: Oh, I get that. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, I'm like “Maybe I should man up”- 

Thomas Dale: Try it out! Yeah, get a finger in there, it'll be nice- sometimes- I know plenty of girls who would put strap on and fuck their boyfriends. 

D.J. Demers: I know a guy like that as well. 

Thomas Dale: I love when straight men get sexualized and is treated like little bitches, like- I love that straight men- 

D.J. Demers: Don't get me wrong, I'm sexualized. Prostate’s the last frontier. 

Thomas Dale: [laughing] Well, start exploring. 

D.J. Demers: You know what’s funny, I was just thinking earlier today about every podcast episode for this podcast, has like “E” cited for “explicit” and I was like “You know, I really don't know if I needed that so far, I don't think we've gone too explicit”. 

Thomas Dale: [laughing] Yes! I'm proud! I am proud, it should be explicit. Life is explicit. 

D.J. Demers: Exactly, that’s the thing. And you know, it's actually interesting to talk about, like your preferences as a gay man because I actually don't know much about the community- 

Thomas Dale: Right. 

D.J. Demers: So, because I'm not gay and I'm trying to think of who like- yeah I really don't- when I went to Catholic high school I remember there was like one openly gay guy. It’s just- it’s really kind of heartening to see- I'm not in high school, I'm not a young person anymore so-yeah, so I don't know what it's like but I think we've made serious progress cause when I look back, my high school had maybe like 18 hundred people in it. 

Thomas Dale: Right, right. 

D.J. Demers: And there was only one openly gay guy I remember, which is pretty crazy. I feel like now, not all over of course, but I feel like for the most part you can be out- 

Thomas Dale: Oh, 1000 percent and cause now, also in high school like straight dudes, it's like cool to act gay with each other. That's what they do. So now- 

D.J. Demers: Really? 

Thomas Dale: Oh yeah, totally. They all act gay with each other and like, apparently like the statistics have shown that bisexuality is that like 62 percent, like people that are out as bi. 

D.J. Demers: Really? 

Thomas Dale: And identify as bi. Actually I am sorry- there was once statistic that I saw that was like, people that were out as bi under 25 was like 85 percent that identified, secret anonymously as bi. 

D.J. Demers: Wow. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah. Like they were survey them anonymously and 85 percent said they would be more bi. Not just straight, or anything but just straight, like not many people identify as just straight. So that's a big, you know- pop culture and all that changes, you know. So people are so basic, humans are so basic, they just need a little bit of “okay”. See, as a person, I don't -I refuse to live with shame, I don't have shame. My parents have always said that you've never- I just don't have, I don't have it in me, to feel shame. So, it's hard to live in this world that's full of shame. 

D.J. Demers: Full of shame. 

Thomas Dale: Full of shame. That's all they do, is shame each other. That's why that joke with the father’s underwear thing- I have that part where they all go “uuuugh” and then I go “Oh, fuck me for being honest”. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: And showing them, “Look at all, you guys. I just told you how you're making people suppress shit, you just shamed me”. So now I show everyone how they made me suppress shit as a kid by their reaction. And I flip it on them. And they laugh cause they're like “Oh God, he's right”. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: And then I go into it. 

D.J. Demers: And you’re like “Suuucker”- [laughing] 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, well no, now I’m like, you know “Open your fucking eyes, stop doing that to people, because that's all this crazy shit that's going on”. And that's why it's a joke. 

D.J. Demers: You can see it on people's faces when they’re 50 years old or 60 that they've been hiding a secret- 

Thomas Dale: Yeah. You're already miserable when you're 60. So then on top of you been- you didn't live your life. Uh, of course you're going to want to take down 

the ship. So that's the thing. So I just want to liberate everybody for whatever it is, not your sexuality. 

D.J. Demers: Is that your goal when you get up there? 

Thomas Dale: That’s my goal. Well, my goal when I get up there is to just live, because when I'm on stage like people are like “Oh my God, he has such a funny character”, I'm like “No, on stage is where I'm being myself”. Off stage, I’m awkward, I’m weird- 

D.J. Demers: You can't say everything you want to say- 

Thomas Dale: And I come off out of pocket, like I'm like being myself offstage and I'm constantly told to be calm down so that- I just wind up being calm or down because I'm like “Well I'm going to go” was like, “Oh, you don't seem like that offstage”, I'm like because if I acted it like that on stage all the time which is what I want, I can't be anywhere. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: You can't take me anywhere then. 

D.J. Demers: It’s actually, I like it because I don't technically wanna be that guy off stage, but on stage I feel like the microphone goes in my hand I'm like- I'm expected to be something. So I'm gonna- you know, say all these things on my mind that I don't say all day. It's such a liberating feeling and the most wasted opportunity. I feel like when I get off stage and I realize I just went through the motions and I’m like “You just had a mic in your hand, you could’ve said anything you want and you did that?!”. 

Thomas Dale: Right, it's true. Yes. What a blast to be able to have that opportunity. 

D.J. Demers: For sure. I think about that, like what if I stop liking stand-up comedy. I just don’t think that gonna happen. 

Thomas Dale: No, because there's been stew- I've been on my bed, crying from heartbreak over something and I still drag myself out to do that spot. I can't, you know, I've cancels about before because I just wasn't into the place or whatever or I knew it was just shit and I was like “Eh, fuck it”. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: Like, for the most part, 95 percent, I would drag myself- I'm like “Nope, just go” and then I would feel better. That's like a scary thought to be like “Am I going to one day just be like I'm over it”. I don't. I don't think so because we see- and then there's the flip side where I'm like, I said like- you know the 40 year old comics or 50 year old comics who are like still doing it and you're like- and they could pop two or they have popped, and then they had a low, and then they to have 

another pop. So that's why there's- so you see it. So you're like “Oh, I get it”. But you're like “Oh yeah, no, they're just- it's engraved in us, that's it”. We're never, that's it, we're just lifers in this. 

D.J. Demers: I think the way to get tired of it real quick is to not be honest and not evolve and the now you have to do the same shit for 15 years. 

Thomas Dale: Right, exactly. 

D.J. Demers: But as long as you're scared every time you get up there- 

Thomas Dale: And like doing it, just like- I think doing it every day, people get, you get like “Ugh”, cause I know when I was in New York doing it all the time, like I just was- get like, I got redundant and my set stayed the same because there's no- you get so many sets in New York that you just don't- you take it for granted. People think like “Oh, I'm going to go to New York and do all these sets, it’s going to be great”, it's like “No, you're going to become stale actually”. A lot of comics I know from New York are still doing the same set. 

D.J. Demers: Really? 

Thomas Dale: Yeah. 

D.J. Demers: When did you move to L.A? 

Thomas Dale: Uh, almost five years ago. So four and a half closer- January, five years. 

D.J. Demers: And how does it compare? How many sets per week in New York vs- 

Thomas Dale: Mmm, It's definitely half, let's say half. 

D.J. Demers: Wow. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, but I don't mind that because I was getting, I was getting stagnant 

D.J. Demers: Because you're not living life? You're just doing comedy all the time- 

Thomas Dale: No, just because you’re- well that, yes. But you're doing this- you're having sets all the time. So the stage time isn't like golden to you. Out here you're like “Oh, I need to- you know, this house party set that I'm doing I want to do”, you know, we're going to explore. Because I don't get that stage. So you do, you know. And just like L.A., there's so many different terrains of shows out here. So you're- I think my flavor got mixed up a little bit. I changed more I like, got different vibes going because you do all the different episodes. In New York it's like the same club show, the same bar shows, same fucking vibe, same crowd, same crowd, same crowds, same- it's like out here you get the west side, you have the city, you have 

the valley, you have this- you know, this weird show up in Claremont and you know- suburbs and beach, you know. So you're getting all different types of crowds. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah. And they let you, they like performance art out here. So they let you be weird up there. In New York it’s just jokes, jokes, jokes, jokes, jokes and that's never the comic I've been, I've never been that comic. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, I kinda go back and forth on that point, I'm like “Should I just get up then and hit them hard with jokes or do I want to like, show my personality so that they're on the ride with me?”. 

Thomas Dale: I’ll say show your personality, give them a ride. 

D.J. Demers: It's a weird thing in L.A though, because every set feels like a showcase set, so I’m like- 

Thomas Dale: In the beginning, the first two years I felt like that. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: But after they get to know you and then, you know- now I feel lucky that I'm at a place where I get to just explore. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, I'm trying to learn to do that because- it's not a healthy way to think of every set as a showcase set. Because then I just won't evolve. And I need to be scared, I love getting up there. I've been doing this new thing lately where like when I'm doing a headline into, I don't think of my jokes before I go on stage. 

Thomas Dale: Oh yeah. 

D.J. Demers: It’s been so fun, just get up there, start talking and people see what happens. 

Thomas Dale: Just get up and start- just live. That's what I do, I don’t- 

D.J. Demers: I'm good to have- making people laugh. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, you're funny. You know how to do it. You just get up there- I don't ever, I don't like set list anymore. 

D.J. Demers: No. Me neither. Well I've just started doing it in the last couple of months. It's amazing. And then like the feeling, of like you make a joke with this person in the front row, you make a connection with this person, you're bringing them back later on the set. And everybody in the room knows this is all happening. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, fuck that set list, man. Set list- too much structure. You've got to get- art doesn't have structure. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: It's like painting, you know, you've got to get up there and just let the paint splatter. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, but then I watch a guy like Seinfeld, he just boom boom boom boom boom. 

Thomas Dale: Yes, that’s his thing, that’s what he does. Like Mitch Hedberg, you know. Like he does his thing. 

D.J. Demers: I think I'd rather watch. Who are some of your favorite comics? 

Thomas Dale: I love them- Mitch Hedberg, Chris Rock was my, when I was a kid, I loved Chris Rock. I thought he was great, um- who some of them now- 

D.J. Demers: When do you think- a more interesting question: when are you going to pop? Things are going really well. I feel like you’re on a cusp. 

Thomas Dale: It's like I'm on the cusp, I feel like I've been on the cusp. I think- you know what: I can say confidently is that, when I'm onstage now it's a different vibe. People are coming in the room and afterwards, people -like the reactions are different. It always was “Oh, yeah, you're so funny, great set”. But now people are like “Holy shit” and that's pretty awesome. That I know for sure. 

D.J. Demers: You're a killer, man. You don't need to hear that from me, but the vibe in the room when you're on stage is a man who is in complete control of the room. 

Thomas Dale: And to me, that's really dope because it's really cool that people are like, respecting it and it's a thing, you know. You know so- but as I, as far as industry shit, to be honest I can never fucking tell. I mean, you never know. You never know. 

D.J. Demers: What would be your idea of like the type of success that you want? 

Thomas Dale: Uh, I want to have my own show, a couple of great specials and just be touring and then do some movies that’s- that’d be great. I’d love that, I would love to be in movies but like me in the movies, like you know- that would be the ultimate. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, cause you’ve got a kinda cool, like you're gay but you're also like macho. 

Thomas Dale: Right, like a bro but inside I’m just this little girl, but then on the -you know, like there's a whole slew of things in me. 

D.J. Demers: You have a show idea that you- 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, I have a couple of things that are in the works and stuff, you know, that we have to pitch and stuff like that. 

[loug thud] 

D.J. Demers: Something just fell, don’t be alarmed. [laughing] 

Thomas Dale: [laughing] And that it’s, we'll see. I mean, you know this fucking business is absolutely insane. So you can't really- you just work and see what happens. 

D.J. Demers: What brought you from New York to L.A? Was it the film and TV industry? 

Thomas Dale: I just love L.A. I love it so much. I loved it and I wanted to be stable enough in comedy to be able to say “All right, I'm ready to go”. I didn't come here like, because it was like “Oh, I'm not getting opportunities in New York so I want opportunities here”. That's not AT ALL why I came here. I came here because I love California. And I love L.A. It's great. 

D.J. Demers: It's pretty awesome. 

Thomas Dale: It’s beautiful. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. Me and my girlfriend just drove up to Sequoia National Forest this past weekend. 

Thomas Dale: Nice, I have to go and check it out. 

D.J. Demers: So cool, four hour drive, you're surrounded by these huge mountains and trees. 

Thomas Dale: It’s gorgeous. 

D.J. Demers: It’s amazing. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah. If I’m gonna live somewhere, I feel like that's what I would want to do. That's where I want to be out here. I love California. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, it's pretty amazing out here. 

Thomas Dale: And the fact that Hollywood is here is just a bonus. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. You go to a lot of auditions? 

Thomas Dale: Nah, I don't do a lot of auditions, to be real. You know, just working on my own stuff in comedy, you know- I'll get put on tape and go in the room for stuff but you know, I'm very specific. I'm like- my own character, so it's got to be right. I tell my agents and managers, I don't want to just go, just to be you know, busy doing shit. If it's not right for me, don't send me. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, I just sent in a submission tape yesterday, a self-tape for a game show called “Beat the Clock”. 

Thomas Dale: Right, right. 

D.J. Demers: So I had to do it, like” Can you beat the clock?!” [laughing] 

Thomas Dale: I stopped going for those. I can’t do it, I can’t. [laughing] 

D.J. Demers: It was so hard to me to not say it sarcastically. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, I know. I want to shoot myself for those, I've had so I'd say, I've gotten a little more- a little pickier as times gone on and I used to go for stuff like that, and I just can’t- the better I get at comedy, the more um- I can't do it. I'm like an- I'm an artist now. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. But here's the thing: a part of me is like, I would fucking love to host that show. [laughing] 

Thomas Dale: I could totally through that. Just the dark side of you but like you’re- like that on TV. [laughing] 

D.J. Demers: Or like bring in even like a little bit of my personality, because the way I look at things like that is like- my whole life I'm just trying to make it fun. Whatever happens, I just want to make it fun. So if I can make that fun and then that brings people out to watch me do stand up, I mean as long as everything's coming back to me being on stage with the mic- 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, it’s Gleib, Ben Gleib, he's done great with the game show stuff that he's hosting. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he sounds out of bounds. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, just as long as you don't have to be like a completely different person. 

Thomas Dale: I just can’t do it, yeah. No, I wish I could, I just can't. I can’t do it. 

D.J. Demers: Sometimes I think my dream is to be like a late night host, cause I love Colbert. 

Thomas Dale: Right, right, right. 

D.J. Demers: But then I'm like- I love, I watch Colbert’s monologue every day. But I'm not watching him interview the guest. I'm like, I would love to be a late night host but do I have to talk to people? 

Thomas Dale: [laughing] Exactly. That’s exactly all you have to do. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, “so, tell me about the movie” – like Oh God! Can I just do the monologue and then you have somebody else with a hologram like me? So, like late night host would be great, but in a different form. Like I couldn't just- 

Thomas Dale: Maybe create a new form? 

D.J. Demers: Maybe. 

Thomas Dale: Right? 

D.J. Demers: I do love Colbert’s monologues right now though, it just feels like so important with how much lies are being spread by Donald Trump and it feels like the comedy is at the risk of sounding pretentious. It feels like that kind of comedy is important right now. 

Thomas Dale: It's super important but here's the thing: is that we're so separated in the country, that it's not- it's not- they're not listening. They're not like- watching. It's not happening. So we're all just- so at the end of the day, I've always said, you know just going down to civil war and it's so unfortunate because who wants to live through that shit. I mean, God- 

D.J. Demers: I don't want to be a part of history. 

Thomas Dale: Yes, seriously. Like just enough, wait until like I'm 90, you know? 

D.J. Demers: I know. 

Thomas Dale: But I think that that's where it's headed, you know, so we'll see. 

D.J. Demers: You think it's actually headed for a full scale civil war? 

Thomas Dale: I used to have premonitions when I was a kid about it. So- 

D.J. Demers: Really? 

Thomas Dale: So it seems right- 

D.J. Demers: And you believe your premonitions- you see mediums and everything, you believe in that sort of thing? 

Thomas Dale: Of course, yeah. I mean, my senses are really, really in tune but I'm off a little bit at times so I have really good instincts but I also have grand- like what's that grand juror, like when you're like- you know I'm manic, I am bipolar so I don't- it's weird being a bipolar person with great instincts because my instincts are good but sometimes my mind is not right and it's telling me different things, so I don't know what to trust. 

D.J. Demers: What was the civil war that you- 

Thomas Dale: I just, I was a kid, we were teenagers and I would just see this like- I don't, it’s so- I used to say I was a leader. I was one of the leader of the new world and there would be, it would be when I'm in my 50s. I saw myself like walking through the deserts and people following me and listening to me and me speaking in groups and getting, you know like, we would set up a new society. Our- our government would fall. 

D.J. Demers: Wow. 

Thomas Dale: I used to say I would see the White House like burning down, smoke coming from the ashes. Um, I used to see battles, fires in country. Yeah. And they were like “You're crazy”, like these Clinton years, no one thought- like “This isn't happening here, this is wonderful”. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: And then I would see that and then now it's like this time and I'm like “Oh shit”. When I started to be a comic, I was like “Oh, that's probably how it's going to be” like I'll be known through that. So, then they'll follow- like you're not going to follow just some regular person, celebrity you would. In that time, that makes sense. 

D.J. Demers: So, you see yourself being like a leader after the civil war? 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, like after everything's burnt down and the government's fault failed and we have to create a new society, I will be one of those people in that new society. That's what I've always seen. I could be wrong, I could be spot on, who knows? Right now, you know, I'm worried of lung cancer so [laughing] I might not make it to that. 

D.J. Demers: No, you don't have a lung cancer, man, you’re 50 in these premonitions, you got time. So just live recklessly, man, you're going to be fine- 

Thomas Dale: [laughing] Right, right. 

D.J. Demes: You've got, you’ve- it's been interesting watching you on Facebook and social media because you were talking a lot about, a lot of anti-Trump. You know, anti-hate- 

Thomas Dale: Anti-Trump supporters and even anti, just more like- just saying- 

D.J. Demers: Telling the truth. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. And so you've had a lot of people who have come out on your comments and then you had to engage them and we talked about it, you said it was exhausting to you, so you’ve stopped, you put a moratorium on it. But now you've recently started posting political stuff again. 

Thomas Dale: I remember it like, it was like six or seven months ago. I literally put a post saying it's silly, it’s not helping, nobody is changing. I'm losing friendships over this. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: I don't want to do it anymore. Its negativity, I don't want your negativity, I don't want my negativity, we’re done. And I’ve stopped for like six months, I never posted one thing about politics again. And um, now it's just become so ridiculous that I just- I won't get into it as much but I'll share a video, be like you know “Here, look at that”. Cause five thousand people are following me and a lot of them are Trump supporters, ironically, so I feel like I should do it. They should see it. Because- I'm not preaching to the choir because I come from Trump's- Trumpland. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: You know? 

D.J. Demers: Have you lost a lot of followers because of it? 

Thomas Dale: No, they stick around. Trump supporters are like, it's like- Oh God I don't want to say like, “Oh, dumb dog”, you know, but it's like, you know, it's like you beat it and they still come back, like that kind of person. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: I mean, think about it – they follow who could they supporting. So obviously they're not gonna, you know, let's say they're very smart, they're smart people who would stick with abuse. That's what it is. 

D.J. Demers: They’re disenfranchised. They’ve been hopeless for a while. 

Thomas Dale: Right, that's what I think it is. 

D.J. Demers: And uh, and then Donald Trump comes along. 

Thomas Dale: And he says what? Awful things that they agree with? I don't get it. 

D.J. Demers: Well the thing is- 

Thomas Dale: They don't get what he's saying to them, I've heard this argument many times that he's speaking to them and I'm like “That's who's speaking to- he's saying awful things!”. 

D.J. Demers: He’s saying awful things. 

Thomas Dale: It's not even like he's saying “I'm going to make you all rich and we're going to all live in harmony”. He's not even saying that. 

D.J. Demers: They don't want that. 

Thomas Dale: They don't want that. Exactly, that's what's weird. 

D.J. Demers: They want to see it burn because they feel like they've been getting fucked over by the system for so long. 

Thomas Dale: Meanwhile, all that's happening isn't- is that we're giving, we're letting everyone become part of the system. And they don't like that, I don't think. I think it's a fear of “I can't be a white person, a white straight person anymore, and that's bothering me”. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, I think that's what it boils down to. I was reading an interesting article about the idea, it was all about Dylann Roof, the Charleston killer who went into that church and killed all the black people, like last year. 

Thomas Dale: Right, right, who stopped to McDonald's on his way to prison. 

D.J. Demers: So the whole article was talking about what could create a guy like Dylann Roof. And it mentioned the idea that um- like in a place like Charleston or Charlottesville, for example, there's all these white people who have- there's always been a race- not race, sorry, class divide. So there's like the rich people and then there's them poor people and then now people of color and all these people are also starting to do well so they're like “I already was lower class within my own race”. 

Thomas Dale: Right. 

D.J. Demers: Now I got to worry about this change. And so they just feel so far left behind, that there's a guy like Trump comes along and he's not saying anything to uplifting or motivating but what he's doing is acknowledging all of their darkest bassist fears and beliefs. So he’s saying “Immigrants are stealing your jobs” and they are “God damn right, they are!” 

Thomas Dale: Yes, exactly. He's- what's the word? He's- there's a better word than acknowledging, he's like affirming and that kind of thing, you know? 

D.J. Demers: Giving it life, giving it meaning, that people spoke about in their own homes. Like, think about seven years ago when he first started the birther thing with Obama. 

Thomas Dale: Right. 

D.J. Demers: How many people were on board with that, no evidence. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah. Well it's also- they genuinely do believe that like black people or Spanish people are going to make their- their community less because they see, all they see is the ghettos and they see, minorities behaving badly. That's what they see. And there is a lot of that in the communities because of the income inequality. And they don't have the opportunities so to better education. So there is that behavior. But I think that we all need to realize that we all have had a hand in that. Yes, we didn't own slaves but our ancestors did. And they put- our ancestors put them into ghettos and didn't teach them to read and not allow them to read and write. Our ancestors did that, so they might not be here to pay the piper but we live in a society with our ancestors’ decisions. So if we want a better society, we have to stop 

pointing the finger and, and get our hands in it together and give them the opportunities and better education systems. That's what affirmative action is- helping them will only help us too. That's how I see it. You want less crime? Educate the criminals! 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. The thing is though, what you're saying is counterintuitive to what- how they view it. And Trump always created us versus them. 

Thomas Dale: Yeah. That's what's going to create a civil war. That’s what’s gonna create it! 

D.J. Demers: Exact- and, and these people aren’t thinking what you just said “Oh” you know, “if we educate the criminals”, they are just thinking “how do I make sure I don't lose my plot of land?”. 

Thomas Dale: Or “how do I stay safe?”. They think that I stay safe by keeping them on the other side of the tracks. 

D.J. Demers: You know, it's very interesting to me because I come from Canada. I just came here like eight months ago. Canada has racism, of course, it's a not perfect- but the depth, the history behind the racial divide in America is so strong and it runs so deep. So it's really crazy for me to be here now in a country that was already kind of, not kind of, had that racial tension and to see it just hitting this boiling point right now and to be here experiencing, it’s very- 

Thomas Dale: Well, it's a minority tension because even Nazis, they had their rally where it was “Fuck faggots, fuck faggots, kill faggots”. 

D.J. Demers: Were they saying that? 

Thomas Dale: Yeah, I'll show you the video. So it's all just, it's just all- it’s Jews, it's black people, it's Spanish people, it's gay people, it's- anything that's not a straight white male. That's what the Nazis are against. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. 

Thomas Dale: So that's what they're coming together online with and that's- and guess what, little Nazi boys: they think that like, us on the left are like these little weak- just because we're kind and progressive, we could fight back and we will fight back. Yeah, we'll fuck you up because your dumb little bitches. So don't- you know, don't, don't sleep on us because the left will fuck you up. 

D.J. Demers: Do you think the left has what it takes? 

Thomas Dale: Yeah. Look at the videos. They’re fucking angry, those little protestors, the liberal protestors, they are crazy. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, the all-left. 

Thomas Dale: The all-left, they’re fucking nuts, they’ll rip them up. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. Do you think Trump's going to last the full four years? 

Thomas Dale: I don't know. I don't know. I really don’t. 

D.J. Demers: I've read it seems- 

Thomas Dale: I knew he was going to win, even before the- I knew it. 

D.J. Demers: Really? 

Thomas Dale: Oh, yeah. Cause I come from it, I was like “Guys”, I'm like “You don't realize what I'm seeing”. I see it, my Facebook feed is all that because of all these people from Long Island. 

D.J. Demers: My dad loves- I mean he's Canadian but he loved Trump, like everything that Trump saying even now. My dad and I don't talk about it but I know my dad would still agree with everything Trump says. 

Thomas Dale: Oh, my dad does too. My dad was, was saying to me, was trying to make me understand and I do. He was trying to make me- with the Kim Jong Un. He was like, trying to show me how bad he is and I was like “Yeah, I know he's bad, what are you telling me? Are you trying to convince me that we should nuke them, is that what you're doing?”. Just like before, when Trump has become president, my dad would tell me about “Oh, they found the cure to Alzheimer’s in Russia”, trying to make me like Russia. And I think “You’re so basic right now, you are so transparent. Like you're being fed this bullshit, like Fox News- do you see the propaganda? They're trying to get you on board with Russia. You're being fucking brainwashed easily”. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah, come on. 

Thomas Dale: You don't even have old timers. 

D.J. Demers: Even just things like Trump’s repeats the same phrases again over and over. When he says You’re fired” again and in another speech, the second he says “You’re fired”, his mic should be cut. 

Thomas Dale: Right. 

D.J. Demers: Please no reality show catchphrases during presidential speech. 

Thomas Dale: And my dad hated Donald Trump, we used to watch “The Apprentice” and he’s like “He’s a pig, I don’t want to watch his show anymore, I don’t like him”, but now he is speaking with his- building his precious little wall, and we’re gonna kill ISIS, because you know, the Muslims are gonna get my father, you know and we are gonna give the cops more power- once he’s started saying all that, he loved him. I 

am like, “You’re racist, dude. Don’t you get it? At least just say I am racist and don’t- you’re rasist, be it”. 

D.J. Demers: I wanna read Hiliary Clinton’s book, I wana see what she’s- willing to say. 

Thomas Dale: Well, Hiliary fucked up, the Dems fucked up, they did, they fucked it up. I don’t know how, but they did. She needed to be more about the things that she was doing. “This is what I do, this is what I do. This is what we brought you, this is what democrats- this is what we’ve done for you”. They gotta pat themselves on the back more. They don’t brag enough. 

D.J. Demers: It’s true- and even during the debate, Hillary was trying to be diplomatic- 

Thomas Dale: Right? Stop with that shit. 

D.J. Demers: Tough though as a woman, I wouldn’t be like- but if she would have own it and said “Get the fuck away from me”. 

Thomas Dale: Like a gangster, yeah. 

D.J. Demers: People would have respected that. 

Thomas Dale: They weren’t into it. 

D.J. Demers: But I do respect that she did keep her calm, because he was dragging so many people into his fucking l- people who you'd never heard say stuff like that like, we're like- we're playing his game and he’s playing a lot longer. So I do respect that she did it, it just came off as like, her not having passion. 

Thomas Dale: Came off as being col- the biggest thing people would say about her was that she was cold. She didn't- and we're intelligent people in the sense that we can see what is better. And she just was better for the job. But you know, these people, they need the bells and whistles, they need to be sassy. 

D.J. Demers: It’s a tough thing even talking about Hilary though because he is still talking about her and his fans, followers, whatever you want to call them- his base. 

Thomas Dale: I call them followers. 

D.J. Demers: But you are right, they did fuck up. You know what it's, like that's ancient history now. So let's all start talking about Hillary. Whenever somebody- Hillary is not running the fucking country. I don't care about her. 

Thomas Dale: You guys already- that ship sailed. 

D.J. Demers: So why are we still- did you see his rally in Phoenix? 

Thomas Dale: I can't do it anymore, I don't watch. 

D.J. Demers: No? 

Thomas Dale: It's just I can't. It's like, because to me it's like it's- such idiocy. The supporters, the people that are like he'll lie, lie, like you just- I was walking past the apartmen, I heard it out the window and I say- he was saying something about “Less than eight months and I've already done all this stuff for you and health care”. He said it took them how many years- “and I'm bringing you health care” and I was like “Oh, this must be an old speech because he's obviously not”, like it's already done. Right? 

D.J. Demers: Yes. 

Thomas Dale: So I was like “So why is he saying that?”. So this must be an old speech. Then I found out that it was new and I was like “Why would they cheering then, don't they know that he's lying like, it's over”. There's no more health care thing, so he's lying to you. Like don't they see it? And they were so cheering so I don't- to me watching it is a waste of my time because it's just idiots watching someone lie to them. So why do I want to do that? Ot's a waste of time. It was so but “Oh no, the health care things off the table, it's done. So what do you mean you didn't bring, what are you talking about?” 

D.J. Demers: At one point, he was talking about the fake news and he’s like “Look at all these cameras back there, look at them, they're all turning the cameras off right now, they're all turned”, he's saying that but there's video off him saying that. [laughing] Cameras aren't turning off. And his followers are all cheering and he's like “Yeah”. 

Thomas Dale: To be like “Are you fucking idiots?”. That's why I can't watch it because it will just drive me crazy. And then I'm an idiot. I'm an idiot for watching it. If I watch it then I'm an idiot for watching it. 

D.J. Demers: But he gets ratings. And in Donald Trump's world, that’s all that matters. I remember when he said “Oh, I got better ratings and like after 9/11”- 

Thomas Dale: And this is the president. Yeah. This is the president. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. Well, before we go, I actually- I don't want to get too deep on you but you- 

Thomas Dale: Go for it. 

D.J. Demers: You, uh- you came out when you were 19, you struggled with a lot before that. What would you say if there was anybody who is young and not even necessarily coming to terms with being gay but whatever their identity is- what do you think is the secret to what got you through it? 

Thomas Dale: I would honestly say- just know that people are only the way they are because they don't know any better, and they're dealing with their own demons and 

it has nothing to do with you, and just you are the best that you can be and live your life to the fullest and always do what you want, because it's your life. You come in the world alone and you die alone. Your mom might have you but she's not- you're, you're not, you're not both coming out of her. You're coming out of her by yourself and when you die, you die by yourself. So you might as well live your life. And anyone who truly loves you, even if they don't understand you, they'll try to figure out how to understand you because they love you, so you might as well be you. 

D.J. Demers: Beautiful. Where can people find you online, man? 

Thomas Dale: Thomas Dale and the number five, so “ThomasDale5”. 

D.J. Demers: I looked you up, there's some old general or something who has the name “Thomas Dale”. 

Thomas Dale: Sir Thomas Dale, he was a Virginia colonial- he was one of the first founders of Virginia. 

D.J. Demers: Yeah. Well I didn't know that. 

Thomas Dale: He’s like a famous English settler. 

D.J. Demers: He’s got “ThomasDale1” on Twitter. 

Thomas Dale: [laughing] Well, five is my favorite- look I have a tattoo. 

D.J. Demers: Why 5 is your favorite number? 

Thomas Dale: It's just always been there for me in my whole life, it's very prominent people and connect to- connected to five, addresses I've had, phone numbers, it's all been there. 

D.J. Demers: Cool. Well Thomas, I always love talking to you and watching you on stage. Thanks for coming by. 

Thomas Dale: Absolutely, thanks for having me! 

[outro]